Saturday, November 3, 2007

The Iraq Exit Strategy


Naj said...

:)) Good one!

Skye Frontier said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Skye Frontier said...



I am shocked and dismayed that this type of comparison would pass for rational discourse.

Let's start with Mr. Bush. He's an idiot, a fool, an incompetent that won his election by cheating, and has destroyed any last shred of credibility US foreign policy may have had.

Americans are more than fed up with him. He has single-handedly (and happily for us leftists) wrecked the Republicans' chances in elections for some time to come. Witness last year's congressional upset, and the propulsion of Nancy Pelosi to House Speaker. Hillary will be the next President. In short, the American public shares the world's disgust with this horrible administration.

But while technology has turned just about every country into something of a police state, the US is not an openly fascist regime. Furthermore, they profoundly misunderstand a world in which they have disproportionate influence due to their economic (and let's say it, military) clout. But ultimately, and this is a crucial point, Americans do really believe in fair play. They're just going about it all wrong.

What's more, Hitler, the leader of the most powerful country in Europe of the time, hijacked all the mechanisms of the German state to PLAN AND SYSTEMATICALLY EXECUTE entire races of people. Nothing as evil has happened before or since, although some have tried (Pol Pot comes to mind). And he did this with the full-throated support of the German people.

American foreign policy is shit. Bush is a dumb-fuck redneck. And the Americans resent him as much as everyone else. But Bush is nothing close to Hitler, and the Americans are not as evilly inclined as the Germans were during the Nazi period.

Hitler described what he would do in great detail in "Mein Kampf". Ahmedinejad repeatedly calls for Israel to be "wiped off the map", implying the death and/or expulsion of all the Jews. He does head the government of a fascist theocratic state. So perhaps this comparison is a bit closer.

Stop denigrating the memory of all those who perished in those terrible times with such facile and short-sighted comparisons.

Spadoman said...

Here is a good article written in 2004:

Now, I agree that bush (no capitalization done on purpose), is not hitler and vice versa. At least not in the sense that they will run their nations as fascists outwardly and kill Jews. But they are very similar in technique of control of power and in ignoring the will of the people.

I feel compelled to mention that open discussion and respect for the opinions of others begins with stating your opinion and rebutting the opinion of others when you don't agree, not to attack with names like asking if we are all insane.

What doesn't pass as rational discourse in my opinion is name calling. Disagree, but make no attack on me if I don't think as you do. This is exactly why there is war and not peace. bush does not allow anyone to disagree and has used force to keep their opinions at bay. This is proven with his methods of dealing with people who protest his policy like Code Pink or

He may not round them up and put them in ovens, (although he has jailed them for hours on end, pending charges, for being in a public meeting and disagreeing with the war in Iraq), but he does make life miserable by assigning them to FBI rosters of people who were identified as hostile against the United States and placed their names on no fly lists.

Compare to the exact acts that were and are being performed? Maybe not. Compare to similar control methods of dissent? Absolutely.

Other comparisons can be made as well. The Latin, ie; Mexican with dark skin who speak English with an accent, immigrants, legal and illegal. The Somali, Hmong, African Americans, the poor are all on this list of people who have different rights than white people of means. An example is "Scooter" Libby gets pardoned for his crime, but a Black man in New Orleans during the aftermath of the Hurricane Katrina disaster gets shot for "stealing" drinking water from a flooded grocery store.

No, direct comparisons may not suit the facts, but there are similarities that bind this administration as a terrible regime just as hitler's rule was a terrible regime.

Spadoman said...

Furthermore, I post this URL for your perusal. It will mention similarities of the bush administration and hitlers plea when he was chancellor to then President Hindenburg:

The outcome of the case of the librarian might not have been the same. That is to say, 21st Century America did not have the same court system, but the charges were similar in scope.

Naj said...

Thanks for the links, but can you please hyperlink them. Blogger chops off the tail of the links.

I'm compelled by this line of argument you are making. I just quote you (bold emphasis is mine):


"Hitler, the leader of the most powerful country in Europe of the time, hijacked all the mechanisms of the German state to PLAN AND SYSTEMATICALLY EXECUTE entire races of people.?"
"Hitler described what he would do in great detail in "Mein Kampf". (concrete example please. For those of us who have not bothered to read Mein Kampf because our zionist bookstores refuse to sell it) Ahmedinejad repeatedly calls for Israel to be "wiped off the map", implying the death and/or expulsion of all the Jews." (is this what you call your rational sanity???!!!)

If Ahmadinejad was Jew-blower, why didn't he kill or expel the Iranian Jews?

Since when is "the zionist state" (not the one that is based on the principle that jews deserve a country of their own, but the one that assume the moral authority to displace an SYSTEMATICALLY exterminate Palestinians) equals the entire Jewish People?

Have you per chance come across Jewish people who disagree and question the behavior of the "zionist" state? Do they imply "death and destruction" of Israel too?

Furthermore, does Iran have a history of aggression, military expansionism, racial discrimination? Has there been a Persian tyrant of any kind and form who has engaged in extermination of any races?

If you are a good Jew, you should know your ancient history, but you should also know that Iranians take a great pride that Persians were the saviors of the Jews. this pride is thought to them in history books, as early as elementary school.

Furthermore, have not Israeli politicians call for destruction of Iran? Have you yourself not said, "if it takes to destroy beautiful Iran to prevent a nuclear middle east, too bad, but so be it". Why is it that the world can threaten the "Iranian Regime" and call for its destruction and not be accused of wanting to wipe ALL PERSIANS" off the map but as soon as someone says, Holocaust is exploited to set up an apartheid state, and that an apartheid regime is an invalid one and needs to change, he/she becomes "Jew hater"?????????

I know that not all Jews share your biased paranoia about Iran, but I wish, for the sake of rational discourse, that you people examined the fallacy of your so-called logic. This will not do you/Jews good in the long run.

Servant said...

See Naj!

To catch American intellectuals, bait with cartoons. We think in two dimensions. Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd. Only we are real. Everyone else is in the world is a two-dimensional representation.

The scale of the Neoconservative hijack of American foreign policy is too big for the American mind. It just won't fit in there with Forrest Gump and Monster Truck Jam.

Skye - nice that you count yourself among "us leftists." But I'm sure you have listened to enough debates to know that we have two war parties. Hillary Clinton is the favorite of corporate interests _and_ Likudnik Jews. Every single one of the democrat presidential hopefuls except Gravel and Kucinich have kissed the ring at AIPAC, guaranteeing that the interests of Israel will control U.S. foreign policy. And the American public have lapped it up like ice cream.

The leadership isn't the place to look for fascism. Look at the population that enables it. Only one third of Americans are fed up with Bush. And not because he's like Hitler, but because he's made a mess out of U.S. credibility.

The American people support American hegemony in the Middle East just like the good Germans supported the invasion of Poland - as a means to provide for the needs of the German-speaking people. We're actually happy that the Cheney administration is doing the right thing. We just don't like the fact that it takes so long and that the people we have to subjugate won't cooperate with us.

Give me a break. Bush isn't Hitler. Bush isn't that smart. It's the United States that is like Nazi Germany, with a willing population supporting a campaign of world domination.

Naj said...

Wow, Servant! I do think all that you said, but because I am not American I didn't allow myself to judge things that way.

I have said that the fact that Americans are so eager to bring their troops home is a proof that they don't give a shit about anyone other then themselves. Where were they when their troops were being deployed to mess up Iraq?!

Which brings me back to Skye's criticism of Saddam being 100 times worse than Bush! Duuuh! Of course! But ... erm ... who was exactly supporting Saddam to become the tyrant that he became? Also, who let down the anti-Saddam rebells and left them in the vengeful hands of Saddam after their plot was exposed?

landsker said...

Skye Frontier.
I am not insane.
Hitler was a puppet, his funding came from wealthy industrialists and right-wing bankers.
Hitler did not enjoy the "full-throated support of the German people".
Most people are up to date with the facts of Prescott Bush, and Harriman the banker who supplied funds and banking services to Hitler.
Less known is the involvent of the Ford family, whose european factories supplied the Germans with troop carriers and other transport.
ITT, who owned a 30% share in Focke-wolfe, and supplied much of the technology necessary for the construction of fighters and bombers.
Standard oil company, the Rockefellers were enthusiastic suppliers of fuel technology, particlurly the supply of lead additives that enabled the luftwaffe to bomb us brits.
Some suggest that standard oil and IG Farben shared information about the production of chemicals, certainly, the american airforce was told never to bomb certain important locations belonging to IG F.
There were many more links, for example the round-up and extermination of the jews was planned and recorded with the help of IBM, who thought nothing of it.
Not only Hitler got help, but Franco and Mussolini too.
The fact that rich american jews such as Rockefeller were supportive of Hitler shows, that despite what Hollywood might suggest, the purpose of WW2 was not to exterminate the Jews, but to enable the Germans and their wall street backers to gain control of european infrastructure and trade, and most importantly, the Russian/Caucasian oil fields, and of course those of the middle east.
Like Hitler, Bush is just the puppet, the ventriloquist`s dummy on the knee of his paymasters.
Many of those paymasters, both for Hitler and Bush were and are Jewish , go figure mein kleine schatzie.
By the way, since 1945, american armed forces have killed around 10 million people, (including, 4 million Koreans, 3 million Vitetnamese, plus hundreds of thousands of Iraquis, Colombians, Peruvians, Lebanese, Somalians, etc etc.)
Finally you say that the Americans are not as evil as the Germans, well, what would you call the use of Napalm, Depleted uranium, Agent Orange, cluster bombs, plus illegal detention, rape, and collective punishment of civilians.
Systematic execution, in the name of power.
Killing the chickens to frighten the monkeys, the principle is as old as religion itself, and indeed that is probably where the custom began.

Naj said...


Skye calls herself "liberal" "leftis" "intellectual". She travels around the world and seems to be a nice person.

She however, belongs to the camp of Jewish paranoids who loose all sense when someone says ppiiishhhht to Israel. She is very sad that "beautiful" Iran is to be destroyed! But she is willing to pay the price!! She is one of those naive good people who think Iran will cause the WWIII.

The likes of her are the reason why I started this blog!

I feel we need to chase them and FORCE them to look reality in the eye! They won't seek the truth on their own!